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Episode #23 – Jurgen Appelo – unFIXing Organizations

Agile Focal Point
Episode #23 - Jurgen Appelo - unFIXing Organizations

In this episode of the Agile Focal Point Podcast, hosts Mike Leber and Harald Wild are joined by renowned agile thinker and author Jurgen Appelo. Together with Jurgen, they dive into his latest endeavors, the evolution of Agile practices, and his personal shifts in focus from public speaking to writing and managing businesses.


  1. Adapting to Change: Jurgen discusses how his professional focus has shifted towards writing and managing his businesses remotely, emphasizing the independence and adaptability required in today’s fast-changing environment.
  2. Evolution of Management Practices: Reflecting on the transformation from Management 3.0 to newer concepts, Jurgen shares insights into the ongoing relevance and adaptation of management theories in contemporary business environments.
  3. Agility in Post-COVID Times: The conversation turns to the impact of the COVID-19 pandemic on public events and Agile training, with Jurgen noting a significant shift towards virtual engagements and the challenges that come with it.
  4. The Sustainability of Agile: Jurgen voices concerns about the saturation of Agile training and its perceived value, comparing it to earlier technological learning curves such as those experienced during the computer revolution of the 90s.
  5. Business Agility vs. Agile Frameworks: There’s a lively discussion about the practical application of Agile beyond its frameworks, with Jurgen challenging rigid structures and advocating for a more flexible, pattern-based approach to organizational agility.
  6. Jurgen’s Reading Recommendations: An avid reader, Jurgen recommends several impactful books that have influenced his thinking about business and innovation, including „The Invincible Company“ and Walter Isaacson’s biography of Elon Musk.


This episode provides deep insights into the ongoing evolution of Agile practices and personal growth in the face of global shifts in the way we work and manage businesses. Jurgen Appelo’s reflections offer valuable perspectives for anyone looking to navigate the complexities of modern management and organizational dynamics.

Listeners can look forward to a rich discussion that blends theoretical insights with practical advice, tailored for those interested in staying ahead in the rapidly changing world of Agile and business management.

Learn more about the unFIX Model:

Meet Jurgen Appelo on May 15th 2024, with a 1-day workshop about the unFIX Model, at the CodeCrafts Conference in Vienna, Austria:

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